Pennye Holbrook Dowdell
Item
Title
Pennye Holbrook Dowdell
Remember Those Days Jeffersonville High School
1950 through 1970 Oral History Project
Interview: Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 1965-1966
Jen Weidner 0:04
This is Jen Weidner of the Jeffersonville Township Public Library. Today is October 14th 2020. I'm conducting interviews for Remember Those Days Jeffersonville High School 1950 through 1970 oral history project with a grant from the Indiana Geological Society. I'm here today with Pennye Holbrook Dowdell. Pennye has an interesting story. She did not start at Jeff High until her senior year. She's going to tell us how she ended up in Jeffersonville, Penye.
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 0:34 All right. first, we've got to change that, Pennye's a nickname, so the legal name is Laura.
Jen Weidner 0:39: Okay.
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 0:40: So, at the high school will be Laura Marie Holbrook Dowdell, it may not even be Dowdell in the yearbook.
Jen Weidner 0:48: It is Dowdell in the yearbook that's how I found her picture. Yep.
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 0:52: All right, so I ended up at Jeff High because I was visiting my sister who lived here.
Jen Weidner 1:01: And your sister's name?
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 1:02: Francis Roblin. She was married to Dave Roblin and they lived in Indian Hills, which coincidentally is across the street from the new Jeff High right now.
Jen Weidner 1:13: Yep
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 1:14: That little subdivision, but in that summer between my junior and senior year I met Scott Dowdell and started dating him and that summer. And so, my sister invited me to stay and live with her and go to school.
Jen Weidner 1:32: So, your sister was quite a bit older than you?
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 1:35: Actually, she's about three, three and a half years.
Jen Weidner 1:38: Okay
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 1:38: More than I am. But we were orphaned and I was going to Berea Foundation School at Berea College. They were attached to each other at the time. Foundation School has stopped it last graduation was in 1968.=
Jen Weidner 1:55: This is Berea Kentucky.
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 1:57: It is Berea, Kentucky, and it's on Berea College campus. Buildings are still there and I go often. My sister actually worked in the Boone Tavern restaurant at the Boone Tavern hotel. And I worked in the library at the Berea College. So, I worked, I lived, well went to school there I lived there for three years. And when I met Scott I decided I would stay because I had always been institutionalized since we were orphans.
Jen Weidner 2:31: Right.
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 2:32: And I kind of wanted to see what it was like to live, you know, and go on a bus and come home.
Jen Weidner 2:38: Like the normal teenage experience.
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 2:40: Right, just to kind of. It's really strange because I was elected Secretary of our senior class, so I gave up that office, you know, and for Scott. So I went to Jeff High, and that's how I ended up in Jeff High School.
Jen Weidner 3:02: So, what was your first impression of a public high school after being in a private institution?
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 3:13: Kind of helter-skelter. I was shocked at all the freedoms that the kids had,
Jen Weidner 3:19: And what year was this?
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 3:20 [19]66.
Jen Weidner 3:21 1966
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 3:22 Okay, I graduated 1965/1966. And Scott and I got married in December 1965 of my senior year. But yeah, I was shocked at how the students talked to the teachers in the classroom how they talk to each other in the classroom and not listened and...
Jen Weidner 3:4: Was it more laid back more freedom, like they would be more free to express themselves or they were just disrespectful?
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 3:50: I'd say both.
Jen Weidner 3:51: Okay
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 3:53: But that was the [19]60s, too.
Jen Weidner 3:56: Yeah, a lot of things were happening in the [19]60s. Yes.
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 4:00: But let's see. So, I was also shocked that you could leave campus for lunch. And Scott and I, of course, were dating at the time and he would wait for me after my government class. I had government before lunch, and I would come down the side door. No, but I didn't have to check out with anybody I didn't have to tell anybody where I was going.
Jen Weidner 4:21: You just left going...
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 4:22: You just left. And I would get in the car with him and we'd drive, like to the Trolly.
Jen Weidner 4:28 Oh, you did go the Trolley. Okay, yeah.
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 4:30: Have lunch there, or he would bring sandwiches and we would sit along the river, which coincidentally, he became Vice President of Jeff Boat, eventually you know in his adult life. And we watched the tow boats and the barges, and it was just fun.
Jen Weidner 4:46: That sounds really nice for lunch.
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 4:48: It was and then we turn around and I'd go back but I was shocked I thought, there's no keeping track of students.
Jen Weidner 4:55: You were treated like adults, almost.
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 4:57: Well right.
Jen Weidner 4:58: Yeah.
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 4:58: We were at Berea too except, well, you had to be where you had to be because you worked at Berea. We were in, every student that goes to Berea Foundation and college. Berea Foundation was run like the college.
Jen Weidner 5:17: Okay,
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 5:18: We had to interview for jobs we had to find a job on campus. We had to work at least 14 hours a week, in addition to carrying a full load,
Jen Weidner 5:27: Oh my gosh,
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 5:28: And we had to fill out a schedule just like you would in college. And of course, we lived in the dorm, and our dorm, foundation dorm was adjacent to the freshmen girl’s dorm on campus. And we worked right alongside the college students and we went into the same buildings as like ...
Jen Weidner 5:47: How interesting.
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 5:49: I mean we had science building for science class. We went to the science building, for P.E., we went to the gymnasium.
Jen Weidner 5:57: Where a Jeff High was all, basically all in one building.
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 6:01: And the back building. You had the Home Economics building, which Home Economics was not offered at Berea.
Jen Weidner 6:10: Oh
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell: So I did take it at Jeff High. Yeah. It seems like a good, just good life skills and nothing else.
Unknown Speaker 6:16: Why isn't it today.
Jen Weidner 6:18: Exactly.
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 6:19: It needs to be put back on, and then I also took typing which in today's world is worth a lot.
Jen Weidner 6:27: It's a necessity. You have to have those typing skills. Yes, a lot of people that have done interviews with have talked about typing. That how they're so glad they took it back then. Yeah.
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 6:37: You know, you can use this, or you can blot it out. Whatever you want really, um. One of my friends, Marquita Dean. She would take attendance in the morning, and she said, “Why don't you come around and walk with me. Just tell your morning class that you're going to go help take attendance” and that's all I had to do.
Jen Weidner 6:58 Oh, my gosh, nobody questioned. Her name was brought up in somebody else's interview too.
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 7:05: Well, she was Marquita Sodrel, too.
Jen Weidner 7:07: Okay, I forget what it was. Like he was going to take her to prom or to a dance or something I don't remember
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 7:13: Who was that that you?
Jen Weidner 7:14: I think it might have been Rick Elliott.
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 7:18: I don't remember her dating Rick Elliott.
Jen Weidner 7:20: No, I don't think they were dating, I think she just wanted him to take her to a dance or something. but I remember that name.
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 7:25: Well, she was she was like, elected Prom Queen and, you know, different things like. Yeah, she was a sweetheart. But we knew each other cuz [because] she came from Oneida, Kentucky, and my sister was going to boarding school in Oneida, Kentucky and Marquita's parents owned a restaurant in Oneida.
Jen Weidner 7:46: What a coincidence though to end up, both of them ended up in Jeffersonville.
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 7:49: Yeah. I mean, we, we connected again in Jeffersonville. Her sister Phyllis and I graduated the same year. It's a small world. It is the way that things turn out.
Jen Weidner 8:01: So, who were. Did you have any favorite teachers or classes that one year you were there?
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 8:06: I did, I loved Mrs. Hoehn, she was the typing teacher.
Jen Weidner 8:13: Her name has come up a couple of times,
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 8:15: Very very positive person. And then there was the man that was the speech teacher and I cannot remember his name and that is awful. But he had such a good sense of humor. Now here's another thing. We had study hall. Study Hall was like a class or it was a period, at Jeff High. At Berea, you did your studying on your own.
Jen Weidner 8:40: Yeah, you fit in when you could.
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 8:43: So, it was like an hour, 45 minutes, whatever the period was. Just, you know, in study hall, and it was a huge room, it was like, almost like an auditorium, where the students sat and had study class, they didn't.
Jen Weidner 9:00 They really study. Yeah more like social hour.
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 9:04: And academically, I was a little ahead. So I didn't have to study. And it was actually kind of boring. And if Marquita or Phyllis or somebody had something, you know that because my, my sister. One of my sisters started dating, the teacher that was in charge of study hall. (laughing) And he was really good looking. He was not married.
Jen Weidner 9:30: Do you remember his name?
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 9:31: No. I should have asked her if she would have remembered. But, you know, it really was a small world.
Jen Weidner 9:41: Yeah
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 9:42: Yes, went on with that but the study hall shocked me. Going off campus for lunch and not checking in and checking out with somebody shocked me. Most of the students just walked across the street from Jeff High. There was the house that was turned into a restaurant, and they sold pizza by the slice and coke.
Jen Weidner 9:48: Okay.
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 10:02: And that's what most people, I think, when it was close, they could just walk right across the street instead of having to... It was like a place to, you know just congregate to socialize a little bit.
Jen Weidner 10:14: Now were you in any clubs or sports or anything?
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 10:18: Well, that's interesting that you asked. I did decide that I was, you know, going to join various clubs just to see. You know I'm trying to get to meet people. I can't remember what they were. Some of them were like Future Homemakers of America, I think, Future Teachers, Debate Club, maybe, either that was at Berea or Jeff High. I know I was in the debate club at Berea. And I'm not sure if Jeff High had one. I'm not sports. I had taken, I think all the gym I needed at Berea, but you know somehow I was in a locker room so maybe I did take gym. But I don't remember gym class that much.
Jen Weidner 11:15: Now did you go to like the football, basketball games or since you got married?
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 11:20: Well, frankly, Scott and I were dating, and he was a Sophomore at IUS.
Jen Weidner 11:25: Okay
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 11:27: Which at the time was here in Jeffersonville.
Jen Weidner 11:29: Yes, just right up the street.
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 11:32: And he was starting with a group of other guys, a fraternity on campus, they got the charter and everything to start that. And I worked with them on getting. I was more with the college atmosphere with him.
Jen Weidner 11:50: Yeah.
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 11:50: Then with the high school. Now, I was part of the high school because of Marquita and Phyllis and their connection and their popularity actually got me accepted pretty well.
Jen Weidner 12:02: That's always helpful.
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 12:04: It was. But when Scott and I got married, we got married during Christmas break. And when I called the school after Christmas break and, you know, actually I came into school like I normally would and went up to change my name and the Dean of Women called me in. Called me actually out of class to come up and talk to her and I went out and talked to her and she told me I was going to have to get my stuff together, and leave for an additional two weeks, that it was required that married students not come back to school for two weeks, at least, and she came out and said, “It's because you know, we don't want you talking about sexual intercourse, (laughing)or your sexual life to the students.” And I said, I don't think I would be doing that.
Jen Weidner 13:03: Right!
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 13:03: And she looked, and she said, “You know, I've got your record in front of me and your grades are excellent.” and she said I wouldn't expect that from you either but it's just
Jen Weidner 13:12: The policy. How strange.
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 13:15 So I got my stuff together, called Scott. He came and got me.
Jen Weidner 13:20: And you probably didn't care you're like, two more weeks.
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 13:23: Well, I did care because I wanted to know what that would do to my point system.
Jen Weidner 13:27: Oh, your grade point average.
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 13:29: Plus, how far behind was I getting, I was that kind of person.
Jen Weidner 13:34: So, you weren't allowed to like come and get your assignment. You have someone bring your assignments to you like you were just like, nobody you know shut out?
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 13:42: I didn't get assignments or anything.
Jen Weidner 13:44: Oh my gosh!
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 13:45: So, after a week at home. I came back to school that Monday. And I went into her office and I sat down and gave her an argument as to why I should be allowed to come back.
Jen Weidner 13:58: Good for you!
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 13:59: Because I had already had Christmas break, and you know altogether. I had had almost three weeks,
Jen Weidner 14:06: Right
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 14:06: And so, have the other. And I was not going to be talking anything sexual, so I must have had gym class because I remember being in a locker room.
Jen Weidner 14:14: Okay.
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 14:16: And I do remember, you know, the girls you know congratulating me and you know, wanting to see my ring right like that. But nobody ever asked.
Jen Weidner 14:25: Nobody was like oh so.... So was it common for girls to get married while they were still in high school or is it just.
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 14:32: I don't think so.
Jen Weidner 14:33: Okay. You just knew he was the he was the one and you weren't going to wait around.
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 14:41: Actually, no, he wasn't going wait. And his parents are very supportive.
Jen Weidner 14:46 Oh good.
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 14:47 So, we had the wedding, December 30, 1965 be fifty-five years. And, you know, we lasted until his death which was at forty-nine years of marriage.
Jen Weidner 15:01: So yeah, I mean, who's to say, you know, young love doesn't last. I mean you guys are proof it does.
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 15:05 We both got our master's degree. We both paid for our own education and Berea gave me good practice for working and going to school. And we started having children when I was still going to school. But we managed to get it all.
Jen Weidner 15:22: So, you didn't go do this uh you didn't go to prom or any dances or...
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 15:26: Not allowed to go to prom.
Jen Weidner 15:27: Because you were married.
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 15:29: Because I was married or, you know, I got to thinking about that. At that time, I think to go to prom, it had to be somebody that went to Jeff.
Jen Weidner 15:39: Oh, and since he was at IUS and you weren't going to take, you were married you weren't going to take somebody else.
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 15:46 Right, and I went to do my case for that argument. I went back and said, :”You know, this is my husband. It's not a date. And I think I should be allowed to go to prom. And I was turned down.
Jen Weidner 16:03: Well, we are at least you pled your case and you tried you stood up for yourself, so.
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 16:08: Oh, they got to know me in the office!
Jen Weidner 16:10: Good, good, good. It was the [19]60s, so you know, women were becoming more outspoken. Do you remember there being a dress code? Like a strict dress code for women.
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 16:21 Okay, I came from Berea boarding school.
Jen Weidner 16:24 Okay, so anything was going to be less strict than that, I assume.
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 16:28: It was less strict. Yeah, I thought there were a lot of freedoms.
Jen Weidner 16:33: Okay. So, nothing, nothing, uh, Jeff has seemed too outrageous.
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 16:40 : The thing that seemed outrageous and, you know, but I agree with it. It was, you know, used to if a girl got pregnant in school, she had to leave. And I remember when I came in and told them, you know, change my name I got married. And she brought another woman in and they sat there and drilled me, and I mean drilled me for probably 20 minutes to half an hour trying to get me to admit that I was pregnant. And I told them I was not pregnant.
Jen Weidner 17:11: So, they thought because you got married that you had to be pregnant.
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 17:15: They did.
Jen Weidner: Oh my gosh, how crazy.
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell: Well that's alright.
Jen Weidner 17:19: Because they were gonna make you leave if you were pregnant?
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 17:22: Well, no. That's what I was going to say, I think, in early [19]60s, we changed that. Women changed that. Started saying we need our education
Jen Weidner 17:32: Right
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 17:33: And they started paying attention to us. I did find out that there were five senior girls in my class that were pregnant, not married. Oh, and, you know, they, I had to drop out of clubs, the only club they let me stay in was Future Teachers of America, because I was married. But if you were pregnant, you know, you got to continue, which I think was great.
Jen Weidner 18:03: Yeah, they got to, I mean, get an education and hopefully get some life skills that helped them.
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 18:09: But that was one of my arguments.
Jen Weidner 18:15: But I'm married.
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 18:16: And I'm not pregnant.
Jen Weidner 18:17: I'm not pregnant. That's not why I got married. Very interesting. Is there anything else you want to share with me or talk about from your one year at the big Jeff High?
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 18:33: Oh, dear. I wish there were but I...
Jen Weidner 18:35: Okay so, um, did you become a teacher, ended up becoming a teacher?
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 18:39: I did. I ended up teaching at Maple Elementary. Actually I sort of went all over Greater Clark. And I did end up with 30 hours above my Masters.
Jen Weidner 18:51: Oh fantastic,
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 18:52: And my husband ended up with a few hours about his master's as well. And he ended up being Vice President of Jeff Boat. The youngest vice president they ever had. When Jeff Boat closed down he ended up opening his own company. Tried that for a while, and then became Vice President of Metal Sales and then moved we moved to Chicago, for eight years, where he was vice president there. I gave up my teaching job and became a secretary to a vice president of a company.
Jen Weidner 19:30: Okay.
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 19:31: And then I came back. Once my daughter started having her, well, I think Sophie was probably a year and a half, when we moved back. And I started substituting and got all kinds of temporary contracts with Greater Clark. So, Greater Clark is my home as far as teaching
Jen Weidner 19:57: It's interesting that you taught at Maple because Maple is now part of the new elementary school that was the old Jeff High.
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 20:03 Well here's the thing. When Scott and I. Our first apartment was on Maple Street. And that apartment is still there, it's behind a house. Now the Catherine Apartments are on the corner, and then two or three doors down this this little brick ranch and right behind it is a story and a half, and that's apartments back there. That's where we lived in our senior, you know, in my senior year, and I would walk from my apartment every morning to the high school because it.
Jen Weidner 20:35: It was right there.
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 20:36 : We only had one car.
Jen Weidner 20:36: Yeah.
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 20:37: And then sometimes I would walk home and get the meat and stuff out to defrost which probably wasn't healthy but that's the way I did it.
Jen Weidner 20:47: You survived.
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 20:48: And I would go back to school. And I remember walking out on the sidewalk and looking down at Maple Elementary. And I said to my husband. “One day, I may teach at that school.”
Jen Weidner 21:02: Oh my gosh.
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 21:04 I was in high school, and Maple is where I had most of my contracts.
Jen Weidner 21:10: Oh my gosh, that's so cool.
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 21:13: I know. And here's another thing, when his parents lived on Utica Pike and we would pass by Pawnee, you know up on the hill.
Jen Weidner 21:21: Yep.
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 21:22: And I would be in the bus, and I always looked at that drive, and it just always felt special. And that's where we built our home. Also, the Dean of Women happened to be one of my neighbors. She lived on Pawnee. I lived on Cherokee and
Jen Weidner 21:40: Who was that?
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 21:42: Mrs. Perry.
Jen Weidner 21:43 Okay.
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 21:44 And so, we sort of became friends. She remembered me. I remembered her. We'd see each other you know in the neighborhood. We'd walk every morning.
Jen Weidner 21:54: That neighborhoods grown up a lot, a lot.
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell: And then we'd see each other at the grocery. Once, you know, I moved away and came back. Sweet, sweet woman. But you know at the time when she was saying no to everything that I wanted yes to. I was not h...
Jen Weidner: I'm so glad you're able to come in today. This has been very interesting to get a different point of view from someone who came from a boarding school to a public school on their last year of high school. Everybody else has been, you know, at least three or four, you know, all their time at Jeff High. So it is nice to get a perspective that was it like, yeah I grew up here. I did this. I did that. Just to have a different point of view. If you have anything else you want to add?
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 22:42: No, guess not.
Jen Weidner 22:45: Okay, well, thank you for your time.
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 22:47: Thank you.
1950 through 1970 Oral History Project
Interview: Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 1965-1966
Jen Weidner 0:04
This is Jen Weidner of the Jeffersonville Township Public Library. Today is October 14th 2020. I'm conducting interviews for Remember Those Days Jeffersonville High School 1950 through 1970 oral history project with a grant from the Indiana Geological Society. I'm here today with Pennye Holbrook Dowdell. Pennye has an interesting story. She did not start at Jeff High until her senior year. She's going to tell us how she ended up in Jeffersonville, Penye.
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 0:34 All right. first, we've got to change that, Pennye's a nickname, so the legal name is Laura.
Jen Weidner 0:39: Okay.
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 0:40: So, at the high school will be Laura Marie Holbrook Dowdell, it may not even be Dowdell in the yearbook.
Jen Weidner 0:48: It is Dowdell in the yearbook that's how I found her picture. Yep.
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 0:52: All right, so I ended up at Jeff High because I was visiting my sister who lived here.
Jen Weidner 1:01: And your sister's name?
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 1:02: Francis Roblin. She was married to Dave Roblin and they lived in Indian Hills, which coincidentally is across the street from the new Jeff High right now.
Jen Weidner 1:13: Yep
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 1:14: That little subdivision, but in that summer between my junior and senior year I met Scott Dowdell and started dating him and that summer. And so, my sister invited me to stay and live with her and go to school.
Jen Weidner 1:32: So, your sister was quite a bit older than you?
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 1:35: Actually, she's about three, three and a half years.
Jen Weidner 1:38: Okay
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 1:38: More than I am. But we were orphaned and I was going to Berea Foundation School at Berea College. They were attached to each other at the time. Foundation School has stopped it last graduation was in 1968.=
Jen Weidner 1:55: This is Berea Kentucky.
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 1:57: It is Berea, Kentucky, and it's on Berea College campus. Buildings are still there and I go often. My sister actually worked in the Boone Tavern restaurant at the Boone Tavern hotel. And I worked in the library at the Berea College. So, I worked, I lived, well went to school there I lived there for three years. And when I met Scott I decided I would stay because I had always been institutionalized since we were orphans.
Jen Weidner 2:31: Right.
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 2:32: And I kind of wanted to see what it was like to live, you know, and go on a bus and come home.
Jen Weidner 2:38: Like the normal teenage experience.
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 2:40: Right, just to kind of. It's really strange because I was elected Secretary of our senior class, so I gave up that office, you know, and for Scott. So I went to Jeff High, and that's how I ended up in Jeff High School.
Jen Weidner 3:02: So, what was your first impression of a public high school after being in a private institution?
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 3:13: Kind of helter-skelter. I was shocked at all the freedoms that the kids had,
Jen Weidner 3:19: And what year was this?
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 3:20 [19]66.
Jen Weidner 3:21 1966
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 3:22 Okay, I graduated 1965/1966. And Scott and I got married in December 1965 of my senior year. But yeah, I was shocked at how the students talked to the teachers in the classroom how they talk to each other in the classroom and not listened and...
Jen Weidner 3:4: Was it more laid back more freedom, like they would be more free to express themselves or they were just disrespectful?
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 3:50: I'd say both.
Jen Weidner 3:51: Okay
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 3:53: But that was the [19]60s, too.
Jen Weidner 3:56: Yeah, a lot of things were happening in the [19]60s. Yes.
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 4:00: But let's see. So, I was also shocked that you could leave campus for lunch. And Scott and I, of course, were dating at the time and he would wait for me after my government class. I had government before lunch, and I would come down the side door. No, but I didn't have to check out with anybody I didn't have to tell anybody where I was going.
Jen Weidner 4:21: You just left going...
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 4:22: You just left. And I would get in the car with him and we'd drive, like to the Trolly.
Jen Weidner 4:28 Oh, you did go the Trolley. Okay, yeah.
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 4:30: Have lunch there, or he would bring sandwiches and we would sit along the river, which coincidentally, he became Vice President of Jeff Boat, eventually you know in his adult life. And we watched the tow boats and the barges, and it was just fun.
Jen Weidner 4:46: That sounds really nice for lunch.
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 4:48: It was and then we turn around and I'd go back but I was shocked I thought, there's no keeping track of students.
Jen Weidner 4:55: You were treated like adults, almost.
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 4:57: Well right.
Jen Weidner 4:58: Yeah.
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 4:58: We were at Berea too except, well, you had to be where you had to be because you worked at Berea. We were in, every student that goes to Berea Foundation and college. Berea Foundation was run like the college.
Jen Weidner 5:17: Okay,
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 5:18: We had to interview for jobs we had to find a job on campus. We had to work at least 14 hours a week, in addition to carrying a full load,
Jen Weidner 5:27: Oh my gosh,
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 5:28: And we had to fill out a schedule just like you would in college. And of course, we lived in the dorm, and our dorm, foundation dorm was adjacent to the freshmen girl’s dorm on campus. And we worked right alongside the college students and we went into the same buildings as like ...
Jen Weidner 5:47: How interesting.
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 5:49: I mean we had science building for science class. We went to the science building, for P.E., we went to the gymnasium.
Jen Weidner 5:57: Where a Jeff High was all, basically all in one building.
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 6:01: And the back building. You had the Home Economics building, which Home Economics was not offered at Berea.
Jen Weidner 6:10: Oh
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell: So I did take it at Jeff High. Yeah. It seems like a good, just good life skills and nothing else.
Unknown Speaker 6:16: Why isn't it today.
Jen Weidner 6:18: Exactly.
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 6:19: It needs to be put back on, and then I also took typing which in today's world is worth a lot.
Jen Weidner 6:27: It's a necessity. You have to have those typing skills. Yes, a lot of people that have done interviews with have talked about typing. That how they're so glad they took it back then. Yeah.
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 6:37: You know, you can use this, or you can blot it out. Whatever you want really, um. One of my friends, Marquita Dean. She would take attendance in the morning, and she said, “Why don't you come around and walk with me. Just tell your morning class that you're going to go help take attendance” and that's all I had to do.
Jen Weidner 6:58 Oh, my gosh, nobody questioned. Her name was brought up in somebody else's interview too.
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 7:05: Well, she was Marquita Sodrel, too.
Jen Weidner 7:07: Okay, I forget what it was. Like he was going to take her to prom or to a dance or something I don't remember
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 7:13: Who was that that you?
Jen Weidner 7:14: I think it might have been Rick Elliott.
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 7:18: I don't remember her dating Rick Elliott.
Jen Weidner 7:20: No, I don't think they were dating, I think she just wanted him to take her to a dance or something. but I remember that name.
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 7:25: Well, she was she was like, elected Prom Queen and, you know, different things like. Yeah, she was a sweetheart. But we knew each other cuz [because] she came from Oneida, Kentucky, and my sister was going to boarding school in Oneida, Kentucky and Marquita's parents owned a restaurant in Oneida.
Jen Weidner 7:46: What a coincidence though to end up, both of them ended up in Jeffersonville.
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 7:49: Yeah. I mean, we, we connected again in Jeffersonville. Her sister Phyllis and I graduated the same year. It's a small world. It is the way that things turn out.
Jen Weidner 8:01: So, who were. Did you have any favorite teachers or classes that one year you were there?
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 8:06: I did, I loved Mrs. Hoehn, she was the typing teacher.
Jen Weidner 8:13: Her name has come up a couple of times,
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 8:15: Very very positive person. And then there was the man that was the speech teacher and I cannot remember his name and that is awful. But he had such a good sense of humor. Now here's another thing. We had study hall. Study Hall was like a class or it was a period, at Jeff High. At Berea, you did your studying on your own.
Jen Weidner 8:40: Yeah, you fit in when you could.
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 8:43: So, it was like an hour, 45 minutes, whatever the period was. Just, you know, in study hall, and it was a huge room, it was like, almost like an auditorium, where the students sat and had study class, they didn't.
Jen Weidner 9:00 They really study. Yeah more like social hour.
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 9:04: And academically, I was a little ahead. So I didn't have to study. And it was actually kind of boring. And if Marquita or Phyllis or somebody had something, you know that because my, my sister. One of my sisters started dating, the teacher that was in charge of study hall. (laughing) And he was really good looking. He was not married.
Jen Weidner 9:30: Do you remember his name?
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 9:31: No. I should have asked her if she would have remembered. But, you know, it really was a small world.
Jen Weidner 9:41: Yeah
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 9:42: Yes, went on with that but the study hall shocked me. Going off campus for lunch and not checking in and checking out with somebody shocked me. Most of the students just walked across the street from Jeff High. There was the house that was turned into a restaurant, and they sold pizza by the slice and coke.
Jen Weidner 9:48: Okay.
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 10:02: And that's what most people, I think, when it was close, they could just walk right across the street instead of having to... It was like a place to, you know just congregate to socialize a little bit.
Jen Weidner 10:14: Now were you in any clubs or sports or anything?
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 10:18: Well, that's interesting that you asked. I did decide that I was, you know, going to join various clubs just to see. You know I'm trying to get to meet people. I can't remember what they were. Some of them were like Future Homemakers of America, I think, Future Teachers, Debate Club, maybe, either that was at Berea or Jeff High. I know I was in the debate club at Berea. And I'm not sure if Jeff High had one. I'm not sports. I had taken, I think all the gym I needed at Berea, but you know somehow I was in a locker room so maybe I did take gym. But I don't remember gym class that much.
Jen Weidner 11:15: Now did you go to like the football, basketball games or since you got married?
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 11:20: Well, frankly, Scott and I were dating, and he was a Sophomore at IUS.
Jen Weidner 11:25: Okay
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 11:27: Which at the time was here in Jeffersonville.
Jen Weidner 11:29: Yes, just right up the street.
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 11:32: And he was starting with a group of other guys, a fraternity on campus, they got the charter and everything to start that. And I worked with them on getting. I was more with the college atmosphere with him.
Jen Weidner 11:50: Yeah.
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 11:50: Then with the high school. Now, I was part of the high school because of Marquita and Phyllis and their connection and their popularity actually got me accepted pretty well.
Jen Weidner 12:02: That's always helpful.
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 12:04: It was. But when Scott and I got married, we got married during Christmas break. And when I called the school after Christmas break and, you know, actually I came into school like I normally would and went up to change my name and the Dean of Women called me in. Called me actually out of class to come up and talk to her and I went out and talked to her and she told me I was going to have to get my stuff together, and leave for an additional two weeks, that it was required that married students not come back to school for two weeks, at least, and she came out and said, “It's because you know, we don't want you talking about sexual intercourse, (laughing)or your sexual life to the students.” And I said, I don't think I would be doing that.
Jen Weidner 13:03: Right!
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 13:03: And she looked, and she said, “You know, I've got your record in front of me and your grades are excellent.” and she said I wouldn't expect that from you either but it's just
Jen Weidner 13:12: The policy. How strange.
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 13:15 So I got my stuff together, called Scott. He came and got me.
Jen Weidner 13:20: And you probably didn't care you're like, two more weeks.
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 13:23: Well, I did care because I wanted to know what that would do to my point system.
Jen Weidner 13:27: Oh, your grade point average.
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 13:29: Plus, how far behind was I getting, I was that kind of person.
Jen Weidner 13:34: So, you weren't allowed to like come and get your assignment. You have someone bring your assignments to you like you were just like, nobody you know shut out?
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 13:42: I didn't get assignments or anything.
Jen Weidner 13:44: Oh my gosh!
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 13:45: So, after a week at home. I came back to school that Monday. And I went into her office and I sat down and gave her an argument as to why I should be allowed to come back.
Jen Weidner 13:58: Good for you!
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 13:59: Because I had already had Christmas break, and you know altogether. I had had almost three weeks,
Jen Weidner 14:06: Right
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 14:06: And so, have the other. And I was not going to be talking anything sexual, so I must have had gym class because I remember being in a locker room.
Jen Weidner 14:14: Okay.
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 14:16: And I do remember, you know, the girls you know congratulating me and you know, wanting to see my ring right like that. But nobody ever asked.
Jen Weidner 14:25: Nobody was like oh so.... So was it common for girls to get married while they were still in high school or is it just.
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 14:32: I don't think so.
Jen Weidner 14:33: Okay. You just knew he was the he was the one and you weren't going to wait around.
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 14:41: Actually, no, he wasn't going wait. And his parents are very supportive.
Jen Weidner 14:46 Oh good.
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 14:47 So, we had the wedding, December 30, 1965 be fifty-five years. And, you know, we lasted until his death which was at forty-nine years of marriage.
Jen Weidner 15:01: So yeah, I mean, who's to say, you know, young love doesn't last. I mean you guys are proof it does.
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 15:05 We both got our master's degree. We both paid for our own education and Berea gave me good practice for working and going to school. And we started having children when I was still going to school. But we managed to get it all.
Jen Weidner 15:22: So, you didn't go do this uh you didn't go to prom or any dances or...
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 15:26: Not allowed to go to prom.
Jen Weidner 15:27: Because you were married.
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 15:29: Because I was married or, you know, I got to thinking about that. At that time, I think to go to prom, it had to be somebody that went to Jeff.
Jen Weidner 15:39: Oh, and since he was at IUS and you weren't going to take, you were married you weren't going to take somebody else.
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 15:46 Right, and I went to do my case for that argument. I went back and said, :”You know, this is my husband. It's not a date. And I think I should be allowed to go to prom. And I was turned down.
Jen Weidner 16:03: Well, we are at least you pled your case and you tried you stood up for yourself, so.
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 16:08: Oh, they got to know me in the office!
Jen Weidner 16:10: Good, good, good. It was the [19]60s, so you know, women were becoming more outspoken. Do you remember there being a dress code? Like a strict dress code for women.
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 16:21 Okay, I came from Berea boarding school.
Jen Weidner 16:24 Okay, so anything was going to be less strict than that, I assume.
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 16:28: It was less strict. Yeah, I thought there were a lot of freedoms.
Jen Weidner 16:33: Okay. So, nothing, nothing, uh, Jeff has seemed too outrageous.
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 16:40 : The thing that seemed outrageous and, you know, but I agree with it. It was, you know, used to if a girl got pregnant in school, she had to leave. And I remember when I came in and told them, you know, change my name I got married. And she brought another woman in and they sat there and drilled me, and I mean drilled me for probably 20 minutes to half an hour trying to get me to admit that I was pregnant. And I told them I was not pregnant.
Jen Weidner 17:11: So, they thought because you got married that you had to be pregnant.
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 17:15: They did.
Jen Weidner: Oh my gosh, how crazy.
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell: Well that's alright.
Jen Weidner 17:19: Because they were gonna make you leave if you were pregnant?
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 17:22: Well, no. That's what I was going to say, I think, in early [19]60s, we changed that. Women changed that. Started saying we need our education
Jen Weidner 17:32: Right
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 17:33: And they started paying attention to us. I did find out that there were five senior girls in my class that were pregnant, not married. Oh, and, you know, they, I had to drop out of clubs, the only club they let me stay in was Future Teachers of America, because I was married. But if you were pregnant, you know, you got to continue, which I think was great.
Jen Weidner 18:03: Yeah, they got to, I mean, get an education and hopefully get some life skills that helped them.
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 18:09: But that was one of my arguments.
Jen Weidner 18:15: But I'm married.
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 18:16: And I'm not pregnant.
Jen Weidner 18:17: I'm not pregnant. That's not why I got married. Very interesting. Is there anything else you want to share with me or talk about from your one year at the big Jeff High?
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 18:33: Oh, dear. I wish there were but I...
Jen Weidner 18:35: Okay so, um, did you become a teacher, ended up becoming a teacher?
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 18:39: I did. I ended up teaching at Maple Elementary. Actually I sort of went all over Greater Clark. And I did end up with 30 hours above my Masters.
Jen Weidner 18:51: Oh fantastic,
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 18:52: And my husband ended up with a few hours about his master's as well. And he ended up being Vice President of Jeff Boat. The youngest vice president they ever had. When Jeff Boat closed down he ended up opening his own company. Tried that for a while, and then became Vice President of Metal Sales and then moved we moved to Chicago, for eight years, where he was vice president there. I gave up my teaching job and became a secretary to a vice president of a company.
Jen Weidner 19:30: Okay.
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 19:31: And then I came back. Once my daughter started having her, well, I think Sophie was probably a year and a half, when we moved back. And I started substituting and got all kinds of temporary contracts with Greater Clark. So, Greater Clark is my home as far as teaching
Jen Weidner 19:57: It's interesting that you taught at Maple because Maple is now part of the new elementary school that was the old Jeff High.
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 20:03 Well here's the thing. When Scott and I. Our first apartment was on Maple Street. And that apartment is still there, it's behind a house. Now the Catherine Apartments are on the corner, and then two or three doors down this this little brick ranch and right behind it is a story and a half, and that's apartments back there. That's where we lived in our senior, you know, in my senior year, and I would walk from my apartment every morning to the high school because it.
Jen Weidner 20:35: It was right there.
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 20:36 : We only had one car.
Jen Weidner 20:36: Yeah.
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 20:37: And then sometimes I would walk home and get the meat and stuff out to defrost which probably wasn't healthy but that's the way I did it.
Jen Weidner 20:47: You survived.
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 20:48: And I would go back to school. And I remember walking out on the sidewalk and looking down at Maple Elementary. And I said to my husband. “One day, I may teach at that school.”
Jen Weidner 21:02: Oh my gosh.
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 21:04 I was in high school, and Maple is where I had most of my contracts.
Jen Weidner 21:10: Oh my gosh, that's so cool.
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 21:13: I know. And here's another thing, when his parents lived on Utica Pike and we would pass by Pawnee, you know up on the hill.
Jen Weidner 21:21: Yep.
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 21:22: And I would be in the bus, and I always looked at that drive, and it just always felt special. And that's where we built our home. Also, the Dean of Women happened to be one of my neighbors. She lived on Pawnee. I lived on Cherokee and
Jen Weidner 21:40: Who was that?
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 21:42: Mrs. Perry.
Jen Weidner 21:43 Okay.
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 21:44 And so, we sort of became friends. She remembered me. I remembered her. We'd see each other you know in the neighborhood. We'd walk every morning.
Jen Weidner 21:54: That neighborhoods grown up a lot, a lot.
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell: And then we'd see each other at the grocery. Once, you know, I moved away and came back. Sweet, sweet woman. But you know at the time when she was saying no to everything that I wanted yes to. I was not h...
Jen Weidner: I'm so glad you're able to come in today. This has been very interesting to get a different point of view from someone who came from a boarding school to a public school on their last year of high school. Everybody else has been, you know, at least three or four, you know, all their time at Jeff High. So it is nice to get a perspective that was it like, yeah I grew up here. I did this. I did that. Just to have a different point of view. If you have anything else you want to add?
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 22:42: No, guess not.
Jen Weidner 22:45: Okay, well, thank you for your time.
Laura Pennye Holbrook Dowdell 22:47: Thank you.